Yelp in Philly Weekly Blog!

7/2/2008 Mikonora "Hello I am from Japan" R. says:

Much excitement!  All of my friends read Philadelphia Weekly!

7/2/2008 Heather L M. says:

That's hysterical!

7/2/2008 Aaron O. says:

I think that's perfectly stated actually. It is impossible to review a site fairly when you are being given free stuff to do it and when the place knows you are a reviewer coming into it. The reviews were whiney and clearly indicated that the reviewers felt that they were entitled to special treatment. If you want to write a "Real review for real people", go in as a paying customer. One reviewer gave this place 4 stars prior to the yelp event, and then gave it one star. Which review was more accurate for a regular person? The one where she went in as a regular person, or the one where she was upset at how the free food and drinks were handled? The people who wrote these reviews want tit for tat, not real reviews for real people.

7/2/2008 Dave H. says:

@Aaron: Agreed - free event or not, reviewers have to be responsible and realize what they're complaining about, to appropriately separate their expectations from what reality is presenting them. It's not fair to complain about "not enough free food" but it is fair to complain that "a server was rude".

Hey, Yelp getting publicity, even slightly negative publicity, is publicity... let's be the Paris Hilton of Web 2.0 sites! (kidding)

7/2/2008 Marcello D. says:

@Aaron and @ Dave:

Good posts. Agreed.

7/2/2008 N F. says:

I dunno, (wasn't at the Elite event) but when you host an event promising free food and drink and offer pitiful quantities of said food and drink, you're asking for bad reviews. Sure, reviewers should separate it from the experience-as-paying-customer and should designate as such in their reviews (as most have), but I don't see the problem in saying that they shit the bed in the handling of this event - it's still a reflection of the business.

7/2/2008 eric f. says:

i agree 100% with the PW guy.

7/2/2008 eric f. says:

@nate:  i see your point but i think the way in which the event/ restaurant was reviewed afterwards was embarrassing and amateurish.  

the subsequent reviews came off more like we're sleazy, all-powerful politicians/ mafiosos and mexican post, our drug mule, fucked us over and now we're gonna threaten to break their kneecaps.

don't get me wrong, their service sounds atrocious (waiters spilling food w/o apologizing, etc) but the reviews went beyond that and headed into "we had a deal" territory which just seems like a shady conflict of interest.

7/2/2008 cherie "Cross-country Yelper" c. says:

WTF?  How did you get a call-out, Chrissy?

I see his point (and he agrees that Mexican Post was stupid not to play the game).   think that people should keep this in mind when reviewing.  But as a review of the event, I think the scores are valid if the event sucked.  And regardless of the amount of food shared, rude service is not good.  In regards to the food, you don't invite people to a party with free food and drink, then not deliver.  I wasn't at the event, so I can't say how bad it was.  But if you are just sampling, tell people to come for samples.  Gotta be up-front about it.  

But that blog entry was confusing.  I hardly think that using the "Step 1, Step 2, Step 3" construction constitutes copying an Internet meme.  It's a common writing tool.  And suddenly he links to Chrissy's site (instead of linking to this thread, which is what I think he meant?) and then randomly links to the unrelated BoingBoing/Violet Blue controversy.  

I love the fact that despite the slam on Yelpers, this thread has not devolved into a name-calling match like it would on other city's boards.  Wow, Philly Yelpers handle constructive criticism!

7/2/2008 Dave H. says:

As well as we keep our heads on straight, we can still continue to be responsibly irreverent!

Knee-jerk reactions are human, and that's why we have Update and Edit buttons...
(would be nice if we had that on Talk threads. =)

7/2/2008 N F. says:

@Eric - Point taken, I agree.

The whole episode did not reflect well on Yelp or the Mexican Post.

7/2/2008 eric f. says:

@cherie:  agreed.  that was the worst mis-use of that mem i've ever seen.  it's supposed to be:

step 1: x
step 2: y
step 3: profit

7/2/2008 Chrissy "City 'Til I Die" R. says:

@cherie I am the internets.

7/2/2008 Aaron O. says:

This post violated the Yelp Terms of Service and has been removed.

7/2/2008 Chrissy "City 'Til I Die" R. says:

pretty and witty and gay methinks

7/2/2008 Dave H. says:

The "Sounds of Music" reference is random but appreciated. :)

What's an internet meme? Basically a fad:
http://en.wikipedia.or...

7/2/2008 eric f. says:

it's ok aaron, i think you're cool and you can still sit at my lunch table

7/2/2008 cherie "Cross-country Yelper" c. says:

"I Feel Pretty" is from My Fair Lady, not Sound of Music, I believe.

7/2/2008 N F. says:

Ha, my first thought was "Pretty Vacant" by the Sex Pistols.

7/2/2008 Dave H. says:

Actually, it's West Side Story - not sure why I was thinking Sounds of Music!

7/2/2008 Aaron O. says:

The only musicals that i've been able to watch from start to finish were Cannibal: The Musical and Sweeney Todd. It wasn't from either of those. Ok, I'll come clean, I never saw Cannibal the Musical, I just wanted to write Cannibal, the Musical.

It sounds like what James Gum sings while dancing around the hole. It puts the lotion in the basket, it does this whenever it's told.

7/2/2008 cherie "Cross-country Yelper" c. says:

Right, Dave.  It is West Side Story.  

"Pretty Vacant" might be just as appropriate, Nate.  Love that song.

7/2/2008 Lene "I brake for stray cats" P. says:

haha, that was hilarious. "elitists whine about lack of free stuff"

7/2/2008 Stephanie M. says:

I think I might have to put this in tomorrow's weekly blog roundup post for Phillyist. Would it be weird to write a blog about a blog that quotes a review I wrote? Is it somehow meta?

7/2/2008 Aaron O. says:

Apparently they can provide "pretty patrons". At least have some qualifications as to why you're an elitist. Just because the high school drop out who gave you a tattoo, and calls himself an artist, thinks you have good taste in music, doesn't make you part of Dan Quayle's Cultural Elite.

7/2/2008

This account has been closed.

7/2/2008 Chrissy "City 'Til I Die" R. says:

@anthony he gets paid to do it so i would have to go ahead and say no

7/2/2008 Emily P. says:

@ Aaron, et. al - to take my inane phrasing to heights of gross oversimplification: sex sells.  Having cute patrons doesn't make your business a good one, but it's a quick way to generate interest and get more customers - this is the reason restaurants tend to seat attractive people nearer toward the street-facing windows.  That was the basis of my comment.  

If mexican post had done a better job, they would have had a bunch of attractive, well-dressed people (I consider the yelp elite to be attractive and well-dressed) having a good time on their patio.  Had I been a passer-by, I would have been intrigued.  Intrigued enough to stop in and actually try the place without being "bribed"? -well, probably, if MP's location weren't so lame.

Idiotically yours,

Emily

7/2/2008 Marcello D. says:

@Aaron: Cannibal the Musical is a great movie. I love it. When I Was On Top Of You is such a funny song.

Shpadoinkle!

7/2/2008 Aaron O. says:

@Marcello: The only musical with a name nearly as funny as Cannibal: The Musical was Batboy, The Musical. I definitely have to check that out sometime....I wish I could use demonoid at work.

7/2/2008 Jeff "It's A Cookbook!" H. says:

I'm doing my Yelp Ph.D. at Bovine University!

7/2/2008 Chrissy "City 'Til I Die" R. says:

haha the comment by Greg on the will do thread is kind of classic.

7/2/2008 Stephanie M. says:

@Aaron:  Having Elite status on Yelp does not make one elitist or part of Dan Quayle's Cultural Elite. It simply means you've written a lot of thoughtful reviews and participate in the community in a constructive manner. Honestly, I don't understand your rancor toward those members who have done these things, because it makes the community better for all of us.

And I fail to see how your comment about tattoos and high school dropouts has anything to do with this conversation. You're insulting people you don't even know, with no basis in fact and for no apparent reason. Why?

7/2/2008 eric f. says:

from my understanding, aaron wasn't breastfed as a baby.  maybe that has something to do with it.

7/2/2008 Bill "McThrill" M. says:

Musicals are getting more widespread these days than your giving them credit. Rocky Horror, Hedwig and The Angry Inch, The Nightmare Before Christmas, Edward Scissorhands, Monty Python's Spamalot, Evil Dead The Musical! and yes Bat Boy, Sweeny Todd,  and Cannibal were pretty awesome

7/2/2008 Aaron O. says:

What I was insulting is the entitlement attitude and "we're the pretty people" garbage. Your reviews of Mexican Post makes Yelp look better? mmmmmk

7/2/2008 Bethany "Quintessential" W. says:

the person who wrote that has a pretty good point.

7/2/2008 Aaron O. says:

Bill.....I had to spend my Sunday watching "Gypsy". God help me.

The ones you named, man, I barely even think of as musucals!

7/2/2008 Stephanie M. says:

I can't speak for anyone else, but my reviews of Mexican Post and the event in question were honest, if somewhat harsh. All of my reviews--positive or negative--are honest. And yes, Aaron, honest reviews make Yelp a better site.

Had one or two people had a horrendous experience there or anywhere else, and had they written reviews such as those posted, it would've passed with nary a peep from the masses (case in point: your own one-star "shit sandwich" review). It's only the sheer volume of negative reviews that made an impact. What it boils down to is, they had an agreement (with Carrie/Yelp) to provide something and they did not honor that agreement. People were disappointed and reviewed accordingly. The "pretty people" comment was somewhat of a joke and completely in keeping with Yelp's irreverant style. It wasn't intended as snobbery.

I don't think there's an attitude of entitlement among Elite members in general. As a group, I think we're pretty darn appreciative when we get to go to Yelp events--at least the people I've interacted with have been. So it's upsetting to have someone who wasn't present at the event and probably doesn't know most of us to make such critical and condescending comments.

It's just a shame to see personal attacks on what has always been a fun and civil site.

7/2/2008 Aaron O. says:

I don't know a single person who commented on Mexican Post, so it's certainly not personal. I was pointing out exactly the same thing that the blogger pointed out: how absurd a review is when the place knows that you are a reviewer and you are there for free food. It is a dishonest position. Multiple reviews made it very clear that they expected free food and free drinks in return for positive reviews. That's an honest review? That's a real review for real people? I was especially scathing towards the most offensive of those reviews, and judging from her comments, that person understood that she might have gone too far.   You're just upset that you're being called out for the BS.  I think for someone who is a reviewer, you might want to thicken the skin.  I'm sure you're all lovely people, but what was done to mexican Post was offensive and devalues EVERYONE'S work and writing.

PS....watch Spinal Tap....Shit Sandwich was a joke, not a review. A few people that I do know reviewed a friend's house as a joke. I also didn't expect a free shit sandwich.

7/2/2008 eric f. says:

oh man, mom and dad are fighting again :*(

7/2/2008 Stephanie M. says:

I'm not upset that I'm being called out, because I don't feel that I am in any way. There was no BS in my reviews; in fact, they were much nicer than many of the others. I agree with you--some of the MP reviews may have been offensive to some people, and some may have exaggerated. But just as you think it's wrong for us to criticize a restaurant based on their actions on this particular evening, I think it's distasteful for someone to make comments that insult a large group of people when it's really just a few who were over the line.

That said, I'm done with this thread... and with everything Yelp for a while. Hello, vacation!

7/2/2008 Marcello D. says:

@Chrissy: Nice response to Greg. Ha!

@everyone:

Maybe I just overlooked some of the stuff in Aaron's initial post but I agree that a lot of MP reviews popped up after the event that slammed it as a result of the event. I couldn't understand this, as there was already a spot to review the event itself. I thought that reviews pertaining specifically to that event should've been written in the spot to review the event itself.

At the same time, no matter what the circumstances, your experience at a place is the experience you have. So, if you feel a certain way about MP or any other place, you should say it.

Someone on the PW blog called Yelpers out and, suddenly, there are arguments going on. In my time on Yelp, I haven't seen any Philly Yelpers fight. I'm sorry to see that something as minor as a blog entry has caused tension.

7/2/2008 Dave H. says:

Agree with Stephanie on making blanket criticisms - though reading many of the MP reviews and not knowing the people or backstories, it's easy to see how you can read that.

Not sure I agree with
"[Mexican Post] had an agreement (with Carrie/Yelp) to provide something and they did not honor that agreement"
- we'd have to check with Carrie on the specifics, but while the volume of food might have been disappointing (seemed fine to me, but that's subjective), perhaps X number of plates of Mexican gumbo, and Y plates of chicken were part of the event. If MP really did renege on a contract, then that is an issue.

Anyways, congrats all on being being civil, cool peeps - and keep on being that way!

7/2/2008 sara c. says:

I honestly feel as though we've all looked into this far too much....

The Mexican Post was the first Elite Event venue I ever reviewed for the very reason that it wouldn't be accurate to write about a place that offered me free food and drinks at a one-off event.  It was the lack of hospitality and utter stupidity of some of the servers there (dropping wings in a patron's lap, and no apology?  come on.) that prompted my criticism.  Not to mention the weak margarita I did end up purchasing from the bar - so I think that was enough to give them what I did.

I'm happy to attend a Yelp event whenever I can - official or unofficial.  It's not a matter of freeloading - but it is the expectation that as a patron of an establishment, I will be treated respectfully.  That didn't happen.

7/2/2008 Ben "School Bound" B. says:

Meh, I'm not allowed to be an Elite Yelper since I am under 18, but I didn't let this blog phase me. If you belived MP sucked, reviewed it, and this guy doesnt think thats fair cause of free food/whatever, who cares. If you let other peoples criticism of what you do and like get to you, he's only getting what he wants.

7/2/2008 Dave H. says:

Yeah, I think we're definitely overanalyzing - and not all the bashing on MP was unfair of course... I'm done with this thread, unless someone calls me out for being a tool (which I am, of course).

7/2/2008 Alex M. says:

My email to the author:

Dude. Actually read the stuff you quote before you spout off.

From my review that you quoted:
"Step 2: If the food, drink, and atmosphere are amazing, we will return the favor with lots and lots of equally amazing reviews."

What you said that means:
"If you give Yelp free drinks and promotion, you get great reviews on the site."

Read the first part of my quote again and then read yours.

What my quote actually means:
The restaurant can gain credibility on Yelp (and hopefully some new business) if they treat us well AND their food and atmosphere are great. That is how Yelp works. We aren't going to put OUR reputation on the line by recommending a crappy place just because the crappy place gave us their crappy food for free.

I speak for most Yelp Elite member when I say that we were all writing countless reviews (good and bad) well before we were invited to an Elite party that had free food and drinks. We care a lot about any reputation we've built. We don't do it for money or free drinks.

The bottom line is that Mexican Post generally sucks. We all know that. But, you know what? Their food isn't half bad and they have an outdoor patio. Had they treated us well, we would have pointed out their positive traits. We wouldn't blindly give the place 5 stars and put it on the same level as Good Dog or something but we'd say nice things.

I suppose you did your job and got a few more page views for your blog and got people talking. Maybe next time it'll be for something a little more insightful.

Cheers,

_a

7/3/2008 Aaron O. says:

Apparently people are having a hard time understanding a very simple concept. It's very, very simple. So simple, even a hipster can understand it. When a restaurant knows that they are being reviewed and is giving you things that are free, it isn't the normal experience that others should expect. There is no getting around it. There is no arguing it. That's why restaurant reviewers don't go in to a restaurant and say hello my name is Craig Leban and I'd like the chicken marsala but I forgot my wallet (nudge nudge, wink wink). I have never been to Mexican Post. I will probably never go to Mexican Post. I am SURE that everyone had a bad experience and that their food, service and drinks stunk. I am also quite sure that Mexican Post was extremely foolish for setting this up. None of that matters.

When you go to a place that knows you are a reviewer, and get free stuff, you are not having the normal experience and your review has no validity.

Why did a 4 star Mexican Post review go to one star after the event? The 4 star review happened as a paying customer. I find it extremely funny that critics on a critical web site have seemingly little ability to recognize their bad behavior when pointed out. Instead you get spin doctoring that still amounts to "they gave us free stuff so we'd give them credibility on Yelp".

Yelp got the attention it deserved for what it is doing. That doesn't mean that Mexican Post didn't suck, it means that the siutuation around the review made the review meaningless. As someone above pointed out, review it as an elite event, don't review the place when you weren't there as a normal customer. I don't think anyone would have a problem with reviews of the event itself that mentioned the fact that things were free.

Regardless of what else is posted here, I agree with Dave...the last time this thread was interesting was when Bill talked about musicals.

PS - Dave.....if you were a tool, what kind of tool would you want to be? I think I'd want to be a drill press.

7/3/2008 Chrissy "City 'Til I Die" R. says:

UPDATE: http://willdo.philadel...

7/3/2008 Chrissy "City 'Til I Die" R. says:

Actually, it is getting kind of interesting because a lot of Philly's social media "bigwigs" or whatnots are talking about it now on twitter and other places.

7/3/2008 eric f. says:

at least they got the 'profit' meme right this time

7/3/2008 Dave H. says:

@Aaron: Hah, I have no idea.

@Chrissy: Thanks for sharing!
This PR hiccup does get Yelp attention in the Philadelphia area, which is always good - there's still enough quality reviews on here that member conduct (however justified and however perceived - I don't even want to go there) will be overlooked, and the merits of the site will stand on its own - after all, look at the other big cities that employ it! NYC, SF, Atlanta...

@Eric: The blogger did!

FYI, Before Yelp, I never really read Philadelphia Weekly - nice to see you and other folks posting links to it in various Talk threads =)

7/3/2008 Kate "by the time it gets dark" C. says:

@ Dave, that's funny - I actually read Philadelphia Weekly a little bit less than I used to now that Yelp is available to me....but one of the main reasons is that I enjoy reading restaurant reviews and news about restaurant openings, and I feel like yelp takes care of that for me now (though I do still enjoy the Weekly's crossword puzzle.  And Sean Burns' movie reviews).

7/3/2008 Dave H. says:

@ Kate: I think I just don't get out much (in an online sense).

7/3/2008 Kate "by the time it gets dark" C. says:

@ Dave, that's a good thing, right? :)

7/3/2008 Dave H. says:

@ Kate: *I* think so! But spending time on Yelp is totally cool. :-D

7/3/2008 Alicia "leash" F. says:

I was quoted without credit also.

Here's the deal: MP signed a contract promising free food + drink and didn't deliever. Service was rude, and whether it was an event or not, the staff didn't do their jobs. I worked in food service for years and the deal is: special event, party, or a table of four - treat your guests with respect.

Period.

7/3/2008 Ben "School Bound" B. says:

Hey, I was quoted! I couldn't tell if the author intended it to be insulting or as a compliment, but i sincerely don't care. I stand neutral on this issue. Yelp thinks this, PWD thinks that, its no biggie. None of this matters.

7/3/2008 eric f. says:

@ben b: from what i read, he meant it as a compliment.  but seriously, who cares :P

7/3/2008 Seve' "I'M BACK" M. says:

Hey I didn't even go to the Event but I know SOME money was spent on this event. Whether you  knew it or not Mexican Post was paid(maybe not the same amount as other parties but it was paid) for a service aqnd it DID NOT perform.

For all the people that are tearing apart reviewers does that change your mindset any more? If Mexican post was paid for a service why shouldn't people write bad reviews?

7/3/2008 Carrie "mama philly" E. says:

Guys - here's the scoop. I am on vacation and this is getting nutty. So let me set the record straight so I can attempt to relax and take a break for a few minutes before I get back to work again.

Mexican Post did not violate anything we had agreed upon that night. Period. Anyone who attended the event has their own opinion about how the evening went, including me, and it is made even more dramatic if you have ever attended a previous Elite event. Not every party is going to be your favorite, and for that, I'm really sorry if I let anyone down. There will be another Elite party in July, and August, and September, etc.  For the sake of the site, the media, each other and even little ol' me, can we please move on?

This site is a place where we can let our views be known. So let's make sure to keep that on the Elite event page for that evening: http://www.yelp.com/bi... and NOT on the Mexican Post business page.

Thanks everyone, and have a great 4th of July. I'll talk to you next week unless there is another scandal (please, please, no more scandals  :)

xo-
Carrie E.

7/3/2008 John P. says:

Yelp Drama, Gotta Love it!

7/3/2008 John P. says:

Yelp Drama, Gotta Love it!

7/3/2008 Carrie "mama philly" E. says:

Sadly, I do not love it. Especially this week of all weeks. I haven't taken a vacation in 5 years  :(

But I do love you guys very much.

7/7/2008

This account has been closed.

7/7/2008 Chrissy "City 'Til I Die" R. says:

who the heck posted a comment and then deleted their account?

7/7/2008 cherie "Cross-country Yelper" c. says:

Looks like someone posted on a bunch of threads this morning, then deleted themselves.  Maybe they didn't realize that their angry or offensive comments would disappear with their account.  From what I can tell, they made negative comments and took off.  Good riddance.

7/7/2008 Marcello D. says:

Will Do follow up on original Yelp post:

http://willdo.philadel...

7/7/2008 Chrissy "City 'Til I Die" R. says:

ugh.  i had nothing to do with this but post the link here.  all the sudden i brought down yelp and the mexican post.

7/7/2008 Aaron O. says:

It took far longer then it should have, but Yelp did eventually remove the reviews and place them in the events section. Isn't this issue dead now? Granted, some people did some silly things that were clearly hypocritical...but people do silly things that make themselves look stupid all of the time. On the over all scale of life....who cares. Mexican Post ended up getting some free press out of it...and any press is good press. I don't care for Mexican cuisine, but I'm going to try this place now just to see what the big deal was.

The only real tragedy here is the disconnect between the standards Yelp holds for itself and for others. Apparently irreverant humor is only acceptable when aimed at outsiders.

7/7/2008 Felicia "me no are no nice guy" D. says:

The absolute best is D-Mac calling everyone out with a hilarious headline, then giving a shout-out to a friend (the amusing ChrissiMari), then linking us with a porn feud.  It's pretty great., I think, that Yelp has entered the lexicon and is getting traditional media attention.  

@ Dave, who is clearly enjoying his moment in the yelp sun:  there is NO tragedy here. It's a 2.0 website for reviewing things.  I went to the event and chose not to review it in any format 'cause I felt everything had already been stated.   The event DID suck.  They have these things for people who write tons of reviews and create the majority of the content.  It's not even close to a pay-to-play situation, just more like a thank you to heavy users.   Check out the NY Times technology blog, Bits,  on Yelp from a few weeks ago, they do a good job of analyzing the successful template of a user-generated content site like Yelp, where a small number of people create content used by lots of people.

http://bits.blogs.nyti...