Preview of tomorrow's NYT Yelp piece
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11/4/2008
Becca "the thinking man's crumpet" S. says:
Today, the NYT Diner's Journal says:
" OMG! A story about Yelp in the Dining section! With Yelp, the online user-written review Web site, "you too can be a restaurant critic,' Donald G. McNeil Jr. writes. "You can have fans. You can get the glory of personal thanks from chefs you've deified, or the smug satisfaction of hate mail from those you've savaged. You can hobnob with sous-chefs at food events. If your soul is for sale, you can cadge free drinks or meals. As a bonus, you might even get a sex life -- and if so inclined, you can discuss it in detail, online, with fellow foodies.""
I don't love the tone, but I guess that's about right...
11/4/2008
Preethi "Sweet P." C. says:
The tone sounds pretty sarcastic to me....I'm sure the restaurant critics are just upset that people are more interested in reading what "real people" have to say about restaurants instead of holding them on a pedestal as the ultimate authority on places to dine.
11/4/2008
Mike S. says:
Yeah, we're swimming in it.
11/4/2008
Isabel E. says:
got to love the bonus sex.
11/4/2008
Kevin "diet mountain dew addict" K. says:
Wow. Sounds like critics seem a bit threatened by things like Yelp, Menupages, Citisearch, etc... And why shouldnt they? I'd rather get my information from everyday folks than some silver spoon fed ivy league dbag with a literature degree.
11/4/2008
Kevin "diet mountain dew addict" K. says:
Steven "Snarky [original version]" V. says:
plus the restaurant critics probably don't get as much "bonus sex"
------------------------------ ------------------------------ ------------------------------ ----------
I feel so left out. Yelp has never gotten me laid.
11/4/2008
Mike S. says:
So, Kevin, you'd say that yelpers are a bunch of Joe SIxpacks?
11/4/2008
Chris "Film by Uwe Boll" H. says:
You need to find a balance between the UGC / Web 2.0 perspective and a 'professional' opinion. Both are valuable, and both are needed. Yelp is not an army of Adam Platt's and Gael Greene's. Reviews are heavily biased, often based off a single visit, and usually poorly written. However, they're (usually) easily digestible by the regular 'Joe six pack' and with enough reviews, you get a good idea of what you're getting, before going in.
A professional, on the the other hand, do their homework, they go back to restaurants multiple times, and write with journalistic integrity. I've never read a Yelp review that came close to the level of detail and thought that Frank Bruni puts out on a regular basis.
But i'm just re-stating the obvious.
There was also a similar topic when this article was published:
http://www.nytimes.com...
11/4/2008
norm "brave" g. says:
i wouldn't want a 'user reviewer type' to do my heart transplant, but i don't mind if they talk about restaurants.
sounds like the times is gonna do a serious article. or at least, more serious. all that cheek was just a quote from someone who was interviewed, who clearly has the pulse of this place. can't tell yet what the reporter's angle is yet. it's a nice teaser. of course, getting the story in tomorrow's paper is like the yankees losing the world series on the same day nikita khrushchev resigned in 1964. with headlines that big, no one even noticed that the baseball season was over for like a week after that.
11/4/2008
Steven "Team Snarky™" V. says:
I'd say Atif's reviews are on par with the pro critics. He won't review a place without trying it several times and he is thorough and descriptive. And highly entertaining.
But yeah - the rest of us are hacks. With bonus sex.
11/4/2008
Jill M. says:
you people sleep with one another?
11/4/2008
Atif "Mister Dessert" I. says:
Snarky: Thanks for the huge compliment. I do take my reviews seriously, and research a place thoroughly before yelping. (Heck, it's not an easy job eating a pizza a day for more than a month!!)
But, it's not even close to what the professional critics go through.
11/4/2008
Gina C. says:
Jill, call me.
11/4/2008
Brandon "Dago Red" K. says:
Jill... what do you think happens when a bunch of gluttonous, arrogant, sensualists get together?
(actually i don't really know, i'm not gluttonous)
11/4/2008
Mike S. says:
Yeah, I've done Brandon a few times, wanna fight about it?
11/4/2008
Becca "the thinking man's crumpet" S. says:
norm, no, the quote was by the author of the article, I think. Full disclosure here, I was interviewed for the article, and this snippet makes me worried they're out to make the whole scene just look silly. Which it obviously can be, but of course we'd all like to think it's not 100% fluff...
11/4/2008
Mike S. says:
Was Foodie your word Becca?
11/4/2008
Mike S. says:
Stuff To Do
11/4/2008
Aris "Threadkiller" F. says:
norm "brave" g. says:
i wouldn't want a 'user reviewer type' to do my heart transplant, but i don't mind if they talk about restaurants.
.......................
Nobody is born genetically-equipped to do heart transplants.
But we are all born with built-in food appreciation skills. And a lifetime of learning what constitutes good service/good manners. So I don't think it's a fair comparison.
11/4/2008
Mike "'~The-Boss~'" V. says:
Steven "Big-Mouth-Daddy" says: "I'd say Atif's reviews are on par with the pro critics" Yup, even I agree with that. Very high end stuff. I would like to meet him some time. Unlike some other NYC YelpCritics who/whom/whatever I would still like to meet, but only as long as the water cooling system on my 'machine' gun is able to maintain the proper operating temperature and my homemade ammo is not confiscated by the NYC boys who patrol the Vietnam Vet. Bldg. across the road from where I like to park my old flying machine . [Old UH-1.5]
11/4/2008
Jesse S. says:
Maybe it's just me, but I don't really see any professional food critics losing any sleep over so-called competition from user-based review websites. At their very best moments, Yelp reviews are (pretty transparent) attempts to mimic the professionals, albeit without the budget or writing proficiency of a professional critic. And at their worst, well, you've probably all seen the reviews for Babeland and Christian Louboutin...
In any case, from the tone of the preview, I'm guessing they take a pretty dim view to Yelp.
11/4/2008
Aris "Threadkiller" F. says:
Chris "Spaghettification" H. says:
A professional, on the the other hand ... write with journalistic integrity....
......................
Professional critics may maintain a certain degree of journalistic integrity, but that doesn't necessarily guarantee that their editors will be completely immune to pressures to keep advertisers happy. This may not be an issue for, say, the NYT, but it is probably a huge issue for newspapers in smaller communities, where advertising funds from local restaurants play a much larger role in the papers' bottom lines.
For this reason, I am much more inclined to listen to the consensus in the reviews from Yelpers than from a single professional food critic (Sietsema excepted, of course).
11/4/2008
Aris "Threadkiller" F. says:
One of the differences for me between reading professional reviews and reading Yelp (or other "user" reviews) is that when I read Yelp reviews, it's because I am actually considering going to a place. Whereas, most of the time that I read NYT reviews, I have no intention of going to the place, it's more for the food fantasy experience. Same as with reading travel section reviews in the NYT (I used to read them, don't really read them anymore though.)
Kind of like reading the Bible as literature, I guess.
11/4/2008
norm "brave" g. says:
becca, so mcneil is the reporter? oh, i get it. yeah, he may be doing the usual humorous snide nyt type of human interest piece. superiority is their stock in trade, but i confess i love reading stuff like that when i'm in a cabin in vermont having donuts for breakfast. hopefully he likes what he's read on here. maybe he even read me? if you got the call, make sure you tell your grandma to pick up a copy so she can show her friends.
hey aris, what are you trying to do, find a way to start ANOTHER argument? give it a rest, my man. i don't want to do battle, i just want to cruise a little.
11/4/2008
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11/4/2008
Heather H. says:
Man, how do I get into one of these articles?
11/4/2008
Jeff "Veal Armstrong" O. says:
Thanks for posting the article, now I know where I'm getting my breast enhancement surge.
11/4/2008
Pete M. says:
Thanks for this thread. I probably wouldn't have spotted the NYT article without looking here at Yelp. Cool, Becca and Ed, that you guys were quoted!
11/4/2008
Julia "incorrigible when drunk" T. says:
Marc, if you're on Yelp Who is watching your bridge?
people out for free lunches, hooking up, cruising on a food site for sex.
WTF?? I've never gotten one free lunch or any kind of sex on Yelp. Marc W just made me realize I have been duped into really going places and reviewing them. I did win 2 free tickets to the play Enchanted April on Yelp, unfortunately I got no sex or free lunch there either!
Marc W. will you marry me? I obviously need your ability to uncover the truth, plus then I'll get that sex everyone is really here for!
11/5/2008
roderick A. says:
i've got the Times in front of me right now. Nice that it's on the same day as "Obama", thus making it a collectors item.
11/5/2008
Mike "'~The-Boss~'" V. says:
Sounds to me like Julia and Kevin should get together. But first the cat's gotta go!
11/5/2008
Mel F. says:
becca, you are a babe!
11/5/2008
Becca "the thinking man's crumpet" S. says:
Thanks, Mel!!
I think the article is pretty good, a nice Yelp primer. Although it doesn't explicitly describe the "compliments" feature, so I wonder if my quote just sounds like "People just keep telling me how FABULOUS I am!!!"
11/5/2008
Mahua C. says:
I read the article. I thought it was pretty good.
11/5/2008
Jane K. says:
Becca, big ups! And great day to be in the NYT, right? GOBAMA!
11/5/2008
roderick A. says:
jeff, you actually came off pretty good in the article.
how'd that happen?
11/5/2008
peter d. says:
Woohoo for everybody mentioned!
11/5/2008
Eugene B. says:
Congrats to the L-Train!
"And the L train -- yes, the subway line -- had 39, which is probably an indication of how many Yelpers are young and live in Williamsburg, Brooklyn."
O RLY?
11/5/2008
Edward R. says:
Megan C.'s breasts are enhanced? This article has made me completely re-evaluate my Yelp experience.
11/5/2008
Nina C. says:
Good to know that John Del Signore can't read.
Anyhoo, what more can we expect from Gothamist but snark? I'm actually quite amused...
11/5/2008
Kat "Ladykilla" H. says:
Who's getting laid here? I thought Yelp was what people did after coming home from unsuccessful dates.
11/5/2008
Becca "the thinking man's crumpet" S. says:
The Gothamist's commenters are all really nice! They say that Yelp is very useful. It's Eater people who are like, "Yelpers are basically the lowest form of life imaginable".
11/5/2008
Nina C. says:
Hahahha, I wasn't talking about the commenters! I was talking about the people who write for both Gothamist and Eater... They just don't seem to think we're very useful. Oh wells. I don't really care, but if you don't think we're useful, why keep track of what we're doing?
As for the commenters, yes, I agree. Gothamist's commenters were all pretty pro-Yelp. Eater's have really never liked Yelpers...
11/5/2008
K O. says:
HUH I am at a loss
I don't get any thanks from chefs
No hate mail
I am not hobnobing with sous-chefs
Although my soul might be for sale, thats questionable
Definitely no free drinks or meals
11/5/2008
Nina C. says:
Of course not! I, myself, read Gothamist, Eater, Serious Eats, Grub Street, Chowhound, etc. Everyone can have an opinion, much like I can have mine. I don't begrudge anyone that wants to speak their mind.
11/5/2008
K O. says:
Gothamist called us nerds
hahaha
11/5/2008
R "Meat baby" P. says:
I think Yelp is a perfect example of the wisdom of crowds theory. That is why I like it. All this other stuff about being famous on Yelp (just about the most meaningless phrase I've read lately) is just a bunch of fluff.
11/5/2008
K O. says:
I think it gets more page views then Zagat, OpenTable, Chowhound or any others is because they had a deal with google search. At least in SF when you googled a restaurant yelp would be the first link. But that is a HUGE deal. More page views then the Zagat. wow. I just look at # of stars when I'm looking up a place. Or I read a few lines in several reviews and look for keywords a like. Well I guess Megan C is famous now. And spent a lot of time and effort for free. free. free.
11/6/2008
Jonathan "JWeg" W. says:
KO -- the fact that yelp comes up first on google search is a testement to the kickass job they've done with SEO -- search engine optimization. SEO is an entire niche field within online marketing..crazy, no?
11/6/2008
Briana "Caribbean Queen" R. says:
Oops, just posted a new conversation about the article... didn't see this one. I think the article's great; love the stories about Yelpers and think it covers the basic premise of the site pretty well. And as they say... all press is good press!
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