History question...
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07/24/2008
Matthew "The Sweet Titz" S. says:
For some reason I can't find the answer to this on the interwebz:
How many U.S. presidents were first generation Americans?
Any history peeps know?
07/24/2008
Fabian "is down with the P.E." T. says:
Thanks Titz!
For starters - found this - ANDREW JACKSON was the only president who was wholly a first-generation American; all of his forebears were foreign-born.
So, that answers my question - I think.
07/24/2008
Justin R. says:
Washington was a native Virginian, according to the Googley.
I'll keep looking.
07/24/2008
Justin R. says:
John Adams - Birthplace: Braintree, Massachusetts
07/24/2008
rob "bakayaro" s. says:
This is an insult to native Indians, who happen to be Asian descendents.
We Asians should take back our land!
07/24/2008
Justin R. says:
Jefferson - Birthplace: Shadwell, Virginia
07/24/2008
Matthew "The Sweet Titz" S. says:
Matt "The Beardy Dude (In Hi-Def)" L. says:
But a lot of the founding fathers were actually born overseas.
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not true
see Justin R. above
07/24/2008
Justin R. says:
So what exactly do you mean by first-generation American?
07/24/2008
Matt "The Beardy Dude" L. says:
I could have sworn somebody was born in the Carribbean, but I can't for the life of me remember who.
07/24/2008
Matthew "The Sweet Titz" S. says:
1 minute ago Justin R. says:
So what exactly do you mean by first-generation American?
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meaning the parents were foreign born
trying to figure out if Obama would be the first with a foreign-born parent
07/24/2008
Justin R. says:
They were ALL born in the US. As far as first generation, by which I'm assuming the first children of foreign-born immigrants, you'd really have to read their bios. A lot of their families were here a long time before the revolution.
07/24/2008
Matt "The Beardy Dude" L. says:
All I can find is a wiki answer that says 8 signers of the constitution were born outside of the US. So I'm not crazy, just forgetful.
07/24/2008
Justin R. says:
Ahh! I see now. I'll see what I can find.
07/24/2008
Matt "The Beardy Dude" L. says:
Mcain wasn't born in the US, and Barry Goldwater (who was a serious candidate) was born in Arizona when it was still a territory.
07/24/2008
Sami "HESMOVEDON" W. says:
I am one of the founding fathers. just an FYI.
wait!! what was your question again?
07/24/2008
Matt "The Beardy Dude" L. says:
Obviously, if push came to shove, that's how the courts would rule, Titz. Still, I think it's far to say he was born an citizen but not in the country. The question is actually more open then it get's credit for in the national press.
07/24/2008
Matt "The Beardy Dude" L. says:
Hamilton! Yes, thank you. That was going bug me all day. He was born in St. Kitt's, or Nevis, right? One of the little ones...
07/24/2008
Matthew "The Sweet Titz" S. says:
Beardy: i'm not a McCain supporter but would you agree that if he was born of American parents he should be entitled to citizenship? Apparently that's what Congress said.
07/24/2008
Matt "The Beardy Dude" L. says:
I'm not arguing that McCain isn't eligible to be president, obviously I think he is. I just was pointing out the question in case anyone didn't know it.
07/24/2008
Matthew "The Sweet Titz" S. says:
Trivia: Who are the only 2 presidents to die on the 4th of July?
Who is the only President BORN on the 4th of July.
(no Cruise jokes)
07/24/2008
Matt "The Beardy Dude" L. says:
The eligibilty requirement for president is actually tighter than just born citizenship. There's a technical meaning to 'natural born' that isn't entirely clear in the con-law literature. The way I understand, nobody really knows whether McCain meets the standard, but there's absolutely no political will to oppose his eligibility, on either side of the aisle. I completely agree with that, by the way. I think naturalized citizens should be eligible to run, also...
07/24/2008
Edward "...we are not descended from fearful men..." R. says:
The phrase from the Constitution "natural born citizen" is rather odd. I think they meant "citizen by virtue of being born here".
Makes you wonder...forget Panama...citizens who were delivered via Caesarian section aren't eligible?
07/24/2008
Brandon "Dago Red" K. says:
Actually *pushes up glasses* McCain should not be eligible to be president... there is an argument that should play out in a legal system. Born in territory provides for citizenship but not necessarily presidency. Requirement the presidency is "born in the USA" like the boss. Like as in a real state. Territory nein a state.
Most people don't care, except Republican types, but their the ones trying to get foreigners to be pres all the time - campaign for Schwarzenegger and now McCain.
07/24/2008
Kevin "You smell like beef and cheese" K. says:
Edward "I think your filter needs a good cleaning" J. says:
I have the recent biography of him by Chernow but I haven't cracked it open yet.
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That makes 2 of us!
07/24/2008
Fabian "is down with the P.E." T. says:
Brandon "Wino" K. says:
Actually *pushes up glasses* McCain should not be eligible to be president... there is an argument that should play out in a legal system. Born in territory provides for citizenship but not necessarily presidency. Requirement the presidency is "born in the USA" like the boss. Like as in a real state. Territory nein a state.
Most people don't care, except Republican types, but their the ones trying to get foreigners to be pres all the time - campaign for Schwarzenegger and now McCain.
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Yup, but he was born on a military base. Military trumps Xenophobia.
07/24/2008
Fabian "is down with the P.E." T. says:
We've still not found the answer, have we? Should you we divvy up the list and have a Wiki circle jerk? I'd recommend starting from most recent president and working backwards - since Titz, it looks like you're prefer a Prez that was born in modern time.
07/24/2008
Matthew "The Sweet Titz" S. says:
Of course beardy..."Andrew Jackson was born to Presbyterian Scots-Irish immigrants Andrew and Elizabeth Jackson, on March 15, 1767"
07/24/2008
Edward "...we are not descended from fearful men..." R. says:
Yeah, except for the earlier definition as parent born in US before it was US I can't imagine who else would be in this category. I think it would notable enough for it be common knowledge...especially if it was both parents that were off the boat.
07/24/2008
rob "bakayaro" s. says:
I guess I could never be DA PRESIDENT since I was born in a Japanese hospital with American parents.
Dang, time to harakiri I suppose.
07/24/2008
Matt "The Beardy Dude" L. says:
Actually, according to wikipedia, they were both born in County Antrim which is now part of Northern Ireland.
07/24/2008
Fabian "is down with the P.E." T. says:
Matthew "The Sweet Titz" S. says:
I'm thinking Obama would be the first. Which is tremendous!
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Yeah, I don't think anyone will ever bring this up.
07/24/2008
Matt "The Beardy Dude" L. says:
Obama actually talks about his father more than you'd expect given that the guy has such complicated story (look it up).
07/24/2008
Sienna K. says:
A whole thread filled with history nerds make my heart go badum-badum.
I did not know that Coolidge and Monroe died on the fourth of July. Cool beans.
07/24/2008
Fabian "is down with the P.E." T. says:
Matt "The Beardy Dude (In Hi-Def)" L. says:
Obama actually talks about his father more than you'd expect given that the guy has such complicated story (look it up).
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Yeah, but if he's elected, he'll be known as the first black president. Everything else will come a distant second.
07/24/2008
Mike "Skipper" S. says:
Fabian "is down with the P.E." T. says:
Matt "The Beardy Dude (In Hi-Def)" L. says:
Obama actually talks about his father more than you'd expect given that the guy has such complicated story (look it up).
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Yeah, but if he's elected, he'll be known as the first black president. Everything else will come a distant second.
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Yeah.. guess he is black.. ya know.. never really noticed. I always just saw him as a first generation American.
07/24/2008
Matt "The Beardy Dude" L. says:
I don't know about that, Fabian. Four (and especially eight) years is a long time. Presidential legacies tend to get complicated.
07/24/2008
Fabian "is down with the P.E." T. says:
Beardy,
Unless he dissolves the nation or signs and interplanetary treaty that will be the biggest legacy. He's the first. Given the way that race has been intertwined with the nation's history, this will be one of the most defining moments in the history of the nation. If Slavery (included in the Constitution) is the Alpha - Obama is the Omega. That topic will be put to rest.
07/24/2008
Sienna K. says:
Matthew "The Sweet Titz" S. says:
Sienna...Coolidge was BORN on the 4th.
Adams, Jefferson and Monre died on the 4th
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Ahh, thanks for correcting me. More random factoids. Awesomeness.
07/24/2008
Matt "The Beardy Dude" L. says:
Fabian: I have distinctly mixed feelings about the impact that an Obama presidency will have on the state of race in America. I don't really want to get that deep into it, because I should be working, and writing about race is a big part of what I do for a living, but there's a whole host of structural and economic inequities that could conceivably get swept under the table in the self-congratulatory aftermath of an Obama win. I don't think we deserve to pretend that this is a racially equal nation.
07/24/2008
rob "bakayaro" s. says:
On odd days, I refer Obama as the half white dude.
On even days, I refer him as the half black dude.
*mutts unite*
07/24/2008
vicki "TGIF" M. says:
obtw can i just say something fo real not to bump just from the heart: i would like to take fabian, titz, and beardy and keep them in my pocket all day. thats all.
07/24/2008
Fabian "is down with the P.E." T. says:
Matt "The Beardy Dude (In Hi-Def)" L. says:
Fabian: I have distinctly mixed feelings about the impact that an Obama presidency will have on the state of race in America. I don't really want to get that deep into it, because I should be working, and writing about race is a big part of what I do for a living, but there's a whole host of structural and economic inequities that could conceivably get swept under the table in the self-congratulatory aftermath of an Obama win. I don't think we deserve to pretend that this is a racially equal nation
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Don't be such a Debbie Downer.
To your point, I think those issue will be seen as structural / economic inequalities first - and not racial issues. But then, it's all moot. I don't think he'll win. Who's Debbie now... hmmm.
07/24/2008
Matt "The Beardy Dude" L. says:
That's the thing, though. Race is inextricable from every social issue in America. It's not right to pretend it doesn't matter.
07/24/2008
Kaelea "Crack Fox" A. says:
vix, you have to change fabz name to matt though.
it'll be easier that way.
07/24/2008
Brandon "Dago Red" K. says:
well said Beardy. However, i think the root of most of our problems is poor education, or complete lack thereof. Second is apathy, especially among the inherently energetic youth. Obama is already almost single handedly dealing the apathy problem a death blow. The legions of young Americans brought into his homeland peacecorps style program (don't know if it has a name) could be a basis for dramatic and lasting progress.
Education will only get better with a democratic government.
07/24/2008
Sienna K. says:
All you Debbie Downers need to go to the rainbows and unicorn thread!
My favorite presidential factoid: G. Washington had 2 horses shot under him and 4 bullets in his coat, but was not injured during a battle in the French and Indian War.
07/24/2008
Sienna K. says:
He also saves children, but not the British children.
07/24/2008
Kaelea "Crack Fox" A. says:
G. Wash was also a ginger.
he also had some physical disorder, which i cannot remember.
07/24/2008
CB M. says:
"Actually, according to wikipedia, they were both born in County Antrim which is now part of Northern Ireland."
"Irish? British? I don't want to get in to that debate..."
Scots-Irish refers to protestant irish descended from scots (who are almost all presbyterian) that were sent by England to colonize northern ireland starting in the 1500s, to dilute the natives
07/24/2008
Fabian "is down with the P.E." T. says:
Matt "The Beardy Dude (In Hi-Def)" L. says:
That's the thing, though. Race is inextricable from every social issue in America. It's not right to pretend it doesn't matter.
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I think race masks the real culprit - which is economic and the opportunities that it provides. At the end of the day - it's green. That's the color that matters. Green buys you opportunity. It compounds and those opportunities open up even more opportunities.
But then, I also think that affirmative action should address economic inequality, not racial inequality.
07/24/2008
Fabian "is down with the P.E." T. says:
Kaelea "Safe As F*ck Crack Fox" A. says:
G. Wash was also a ginger.
he also had some physical disorder, which i cannot remember.
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He also chopped down trees with his bare teeth.
07/24/2008
Lauren L. says:
george washington was a ginger? ew. he's still probably the most kick ass leader our country has ever had.
that about sums up my political opinions right there....
oh, and he had epilepsy.
07/24/2008
Brandon "Dago Red" K. says:
Washington was also a filthy rich slave owner - most likely the richest man in the 13 colonies at the time, with great economic interest in starting a war for independence. To his credit, he apparently cared for his many hundreds of slaves well and arranged to have them freed upon his (or his wife's?) death. But he was not up for a public stand against it.
07/24/2008
Fabian "is down with the P.E." T. says:
Brandon "Wino" K. says:
Education will only get better with a democratic government.
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Disagree. Education will only get better when parents realize that the Teachers Union represents teachers, not their kids. The parents have to organize (via boards, lobby groups pressuring govt', ...) and represent the interests of their kids.
07/24/2008
Matt "The Beardy Dude" L. says:
Race and economics are related in complicated and unpredictable ways. The legacy of slavery, jim crow and segregation are still a serious economic burden on a lot of people. I talk about race, though, because it's a better predictor of outcomes then even economic background. Although I think determining first causes is a losing game, I'm wary of a national dialog that considers race off-limits.
07/24/2008
Sienna K. says:
Brandon "Wino" K. says:
Washington was also a filthy rich slave owner - most likely the richest man in the 13 colonies at the time, with great economic interest in starting a war for independence. To his credit, he apparently cared for his many hundreds of slaves well and arranged to have them freed upon his (or his wife's?) death. But he was not up for a public stand against it.
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But that he freed them at his death alone was radical and unusual at the time. Slavery is a great evil, and in no way am I condoning it, but it is too easy to criticize the prejudices of the past with the hindsight that we have now.
07/24/2008
Sienna K. says:
Lauren "with your bitch slap rappin' & your cocaine tongue" L. says:
george washington was a ginger? ew. he's still probably the most kick ass leader our country has ever had.\
***
I forget what publications did it, but someone had asked American historians to rank the best presidents. I only remember the top 4, but it did look like this:
1) Lincoln
2) G. Washington
3)FDR
4) T. Roosevelt
07/24/2008
Eugene B. says:
I think whoever the best presidents were, probably got a high school named after them.
07/24/2008
Matthew "The Sweet Titz" S. says:
Brandon "Wino" K. says:
Washington was also a filthy rich slave owner - most likely the richest man in the 13 colonies at the time, with great economic interest in starting a war for independence. To his credit, he apparently cared for his many hundreds of slaves well and arranged to have them freed upon his (or his wife's?) death. But he was not up for a public stand against it.
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Not up for a public stand against slavery does not diminish his contributions to the essential ideas of our republic. Jefferson addressed slavery head on in the first draft of the DOI but never released his slaves. He was a enigmatic figure. As were most of them. Humans indeed.
07/24/2008
Sienna K. says:
Eugene "Pac-Man" B. says:
I think whoever the best presidents were, probably got a high school named after them.
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I remember reading somewhere that JFK had the most schools named after him, but I somehow doubt this.
07/24/2008
Sienna K. says:
Matthew "The Sweet Titz" S. says:
Not up for a public stand against slavery does not diminish his contributions to the essential ideas of our republic. Jefferson addressed slavery head on in the first draft of the DOI but never released his slaves. He was a enigmatic figure. As were most of them. Humans indeed.
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You are amazing.
...wait.. I thought a mouse wrote the Declaration of Independence. I mean, "Ben and Me" was a documentary, right?
07/24/2008
Kaelea "Crack Fox" A. says:
he also had some kinda Jamie Lee curtis thing going on!
i can't remember what it's called, i learned it at a human genome seminar.
07/24/2008
Brandon "Dago Red" K. says:
Sienna K. says:
But that he freed them at his death alone was radical and unusual at the time. Slavery is a great evil, and in no way am I condoning it, but it is too easy to criticize the prejudices of the past with the hindsight that we have now.
Yes, unfair not to put in context. BUT. Americans tend to make too many excuses about our wretched and inexcusable past. We can't look at early America in a vacuum. Thousands of years of human history had already elapsed, lessons learned, civilizations come and gone, slavery largely abolished in Europe (in some areas hundreds of years ago), etc, etc. These were educated, extremely wealthy men of letters... they knew the score
1 minute ago
